Politically, I do not support laws that prevent people from living as they wish, provided that they cause no harm to others. In regards to marriage, I believe that this is a religious and cultural institution which government should stay out of as much as possible. My faith requires much more of me in regards to my marriage than government does. I think people should be permitted to write their own marriage contracts. In regards to supporting laws that compel non-Christians to behave as if they are Christians, I oppose them. In fact, in my last sermon, I made the point that by focusing upon politics, the Evangelical church has neglected its' primary mission of loving others and presenting the live changing Gospel of Christ. I believe that everyone has the right to be equally considered for most jobs be they gay or straight, Christian or atheist. I would only make exceptions for religious institutions who have moral objections to the gay lifestyle. I support the right of all Americans to serve in the armed forces.
So, all that said, what do I think about the uproar over Phil Robertson? Well, I have to say that I am extremely concerned. You see, he was not caught on Camera using a gay slur (like Alec Baldwin). He was not accused of refusing to hire a qualified gay person in his business. He did not even seek an opportunity to opine upon the moral issues surrounding homosexuality. What was his sin, for which he has now been suspended? He was stupid enough to actually be truthful regarding his sincerely held religious beliefs.
I'm sure that the folks at A&E don't realize it yet, but his beliefs are far from unusual among serious Christians. Some of this things he said were direct quotes from the New Testament:
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9-10 NIV)
What everyone so far has missed is this: By his own admission, prior to coming to faith, Phil Robertson was both sexually immoral AND a drunkard. He was not placing himself above gays - even in a Christian context - he was placing himself in the very same category. If you are not a Christian, please let that sink in. Remember that a key doctrine of the Christian faith is Grace. We believe that when we come to faith in Christ, he cleans us up. There is no room for self-righteousness - we can take no credit for it. There is, however, also no room for us to change God's Word. Not to justify our behavior or the behavior of others. Those who are asking him to change his beliefs are asking him to deny the Lord who gave him the strength to sober up and the grace to save his marriage. They are asking him to deny a truth that has transformed his life for the better. I highly doubt that he will do this.
There is another truth about the Christian faith that most outside and many inside the church do not understand: The Christian life is not about claiming what you believe to be your rights - it is about surrendering them to God. This is why Jesus told his followers to "count the cost" of following Him. The Bible is abundantly clear in regards to the sexual ethics required of those who choose to follow Christ. Written in a culture in which both heterosexual and homosexual sex outside of heterosexual marriage was the norm, the New Testament only permits sex in heterosexual marriages. It is not only the New Testament that has held this position - the entire Christian church - Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant - held this position for 1,950 years. Every Saint and hero of the faith held it. It was unquestioned. Worldwide and in the US, the majority of Biblical Christians still hold it.
Is that fair if you happen to be gay? No it isn't. Life in this broken world is NOT FAIR. Ask a returning, disabled vet if what happened to him is "fair". Ask a widowed mother if life is "fair". Ask anyone who - like me - lives with daily, severe pain if life is "fair". Life isn't fair for any of us - but God is good. He offers Grace and mercy to all, and purpose too.
Of course, the immediate response was, "He's judging, Jesus said not to judge". Check the context. This is in the Sermon on the Mount, (Matthew 7:1ff) the reference is to religious leaders who JUDGED AND SHUNNED people, while ignoring their own sins. Think for a moment. Judging involves a determining of guilt and the pronouncing of a sentence. Only God can do that - and that is why Pope Francis was right to say, "Who am I to judge?" However, IT IS NOT JUDGING TO ANSWER A QUESTION REGARDING THE LAW. We are supposed to know what it is. We are not supposed to pass sentence upon, hate or reject those who choose not to follow it. That is judging.
Sadly, the response has been much worse than that. He has been called every vile name possible in online forums. Spokespeople for the LBGT community have stated that anyone with such an opinion has no place in the public life of the nation. Others have commented that he "cannot be allowed to hide behind the 1st Amendment's freedom of religion" and "He cannot be allowed to hide behind Christianity."
Then there is this from MSNBC: "GLAAD jumped on Robertson’s comments Wednesday. 'Phil and his family claim to be Christian, but Phil’s lies about an entire community fly in the face of what true Christians believe,' spokesman Wilson Cruz said in a statement provided to msnbc." WOW, TALK ABOUT JUDGING. When did Wilson Cruz become the final authority as to what all "true Christians" believe? What gives him the authority to make that determination for millions of sincere Christians? What gives him the right to sit in judgment of Phil Robertson and his faith?
I thank God, that not everyone in the Gay community would agree with Wilson Cruz. Most gay people I have known just want to be treated with respect. They don't force others to agree with them by coercion. Sadly, many on the left, both gay and straight, want to do exactly that.
What concerns me more than anything else is the contempt for religious freedom and the historic Christian faith that many on the left are pushing. I am a Christian who lives in the cultural bubble of California - but I have spent time in other states. Outside the "blue state bubble" there are lots and lots of people who agree with Phil Robertson. There are even quite a few in the "blue states". Not just a few "extremists" - but millions of religious people of many faiths - Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Mormon - as well as theologically conservative Jews and Muslims. Add those groups up and you easily have over 100 million Americans. Just how do those condemning Phil Robertson intend to keep these people out of the "public life of the nation"?
Just how are we who dare to hold on to the historic Christian faith to be kept out of public life? What rights are to be removed in order to accomplish this? How are we to be identified? I know, Christians could be made to wear a yellow cross at all times - just like the Jews. Hitler actually used homosexuals in the SA to oppose and subdue the Christians in Germany. After he didn't need them any more he threw those he didn't kill into the same concentration camps as the Christians who refused to bow to his twisted cross. I'm not calling gays NAZIS, I am appealing to them and everyone else to stop marginalizing other Americans - because chances are it won't end well for any of us. We need to be truly tolerant of each other - we need to reject the false tolerance of political correctness before it's too late.
Were Phil Robertson's comments crudely presented? Yes, they were. Like the politically liberal Christian - and fellow recovering addict - Bob Beckel, his past sometimes shows through. He may owe many an apology for that, but not for his sincerely held religious beliefs. Is his theology Biblical? Absolutely. Were his comments hateful? Absolutely not. Sadly, the same cannot be said of those who were so quick to attack him. Their comments were not only hateful, they were and are just as un-American as those on the signs of Westboro Baptist Church.
Note: I wrote more about the hypocrisy of the left and gay activists in ignoring or supporting attacks upon Christians HERE
VERY well said. I wholeheartedly agree. I wish I can express my thoughts on the matter as articulately as you have. Bravo.
ReplyDeleteIt is amazing how you Christians read in between the lines and come to a conclusion which is completely opposite of the facts. You write "We need to be truly tolerant of each other" yet you believe his comments were not hateful and insulting because that's what essentially your invisible/mute god commands in your Harry Potter's bible book. Hiding behind your invisible/mute god does not give you Christians/religious people the right to say hateful things to people. Ok, maybe you are free to say it but that doesn't make you right. And you Christians are supposed to be the group which stands for love....what a joke you all are.
ReplyDeleteYou know what, I think my religious beliefs call for Christians to be labeled ignorant sinners who worship a fake god and are the lowest scums of the earth because you are like Nazis who thought they were superior to everyone else and pissed on anyone who disagrees with you...but I love you and feel sorry for you. I will pray for you to our one true god the invisible/mute Spaghetti Monster who created all of us and you should be thankful to Him! Does this sound like I respect you? No! Neither does your message with your fictional god. Phil Robertson got what he deserved as you can't expect to stay on national TV while insulting different groups of people and using your ignorant redneck religious beliefs to protect you! And if you support his comments, then you are no different than him and all the other disrespectful christians out there.
As for the answer to your question, were his comments hateful? Absolutely YES except for religious people like you who think you can speak for everyone else on this matter and you christians should be the ones telling other people if a particular comment is hateful or not. Good luck brainwashing old people with religious lies pastor as the future young generations will correct your sad worldview! But then again, I don't blame you for your ignorant worldview as you come from a different generation just like slave owners back in the day came from a different generation than the slave owners' descendants who corrected the mistakes from past generations.
Michael, you just proved ALL of my points........
DeleteSadly, real tolerance - something I have lived my entire adult life - is not good enough for you. You see anyone who refuses to condone your behavior and your beliefs (and probably those of others with whom you agree) as hating you. Never mind that they support your freedom to live as you please. You are not looking for equal rights, equal opportunity or equal treatment. You are looking for validation. If you are really secure in who you are, why are you so threatened by anyone who refuses to condone your behavior or believes that it is morally wrong?
Love? Who do you think runs the vast majority of AIDS hospices? Hint: It isn't atheists like yourself.
As for speaking for others, the only people doing that are folks like Wilson Cruz who think they have the right to define the beliefs of millions of others for them.
By the way, if there is no God, where do moral absolutes come from? If we are free to define right and wrong for ourselves, why is it wrong to hate? How can you even define hatred?
In reality, as I pointed out, when a culture abandons moral absolutes, eventually it has always lead to the mass murder of some group of people. Christians, Jews and yes, even gays have been victims. Fortunately, not all gay people agree with you (and no, I do not know your sexual orientation). Some have shared links to this post. Some prominent gays have expressed concern at the intolerance being directed toward Phil Robertson and his supporters.
Camille Paglia has said that the PG culture is "Utterly fascist and utterly stalinist". See this story and video: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2013/12/19/Openly-Gay-Camille-Paglia-Anti-Duck-Dynasty-Crusade-Utterly-Fascist-and-Utterly-Stalinist-PC-Culture
As a nation, we stand at a crossroads. We can embrace freedom and true tolerance, or we can descend further into division by demanding that anyone who disagrees with us keep quiet. Given that this nation is more divided than at any time since the period immediately before the Civil War - and that much of the division is geographical, this has the potential to be very, very bad.
If you don't believe that, just reread Michael Kane's post above.
You write, "You see anyone who refuses to condone your behavior and your beliefs (and probably those of others with whom you agree) as hating you. Never mind that they support your freedom to live as you please. You are not looking for equal rights, equal opportunity or equal treatment. You are looking for validation. If you are really secure in who you are, why are you so threatened by anyone who refuses to condone your behavior or believes that it is morally wrong?"
DeleteYou know that this argument was used during the civil rights era when blacks wanted to be free and treated with respect. People said if you are really secure in who you are, why are you so threatened by anyone who refuses to condone your behavior or believes that it is morally wrong? Using your mentality, racists and anyone in general should be free to hate on different people and if they have a problem then they are just being insecure. People like you hide behind religion and/or free speech to justify people's disrespectful comments. You simply don't understand the issue here. We live in a very diverse world and people, especially religious people these days, should learn to show respect towards others. Telling gays are sinners and talking about them like animals is definitely not showing respect and you don't see anything wrong with Phil's behavior/comments! If you believe that your invisible god holds a different belief then keep that belief to yourself (especially since everyone already knows how some religious people think gays are sinners. There is no need to continue insulting people) and certainly don't speak like that on a national magazine. You christians don't know a thing about respect and you think you have all the answers because of your Harry Potter's bible book.
Here you go again telling others how to feel or what they are fighting for. Yes, people like me including GLAAD (which defends LGBTs unlike you), we are fighting for equal rights, equal opportunity and EQUAL TREATMENT (as a pastor you've forgotten about the golden rule which is sad)! While I'm not gay, I have a cousin and several friends who are gay and all of them are tired of the religious right standing in their way of equality and freedom.
And while you might think you are a supporter of gay rights with your fluffy introduction paragraph, your words in defending Phil Robertson's comments indicate otherwise. And one thing is for sure, you think your lifestyle is higher than the gay lifestyle with your remarks.
I'm sorry to have to educate you pastor but there is no such thing as moral absolutes in this infinite universe. What you call "morals" evolve over time. For example, thou shall not kill wasn't always considered part of the moral code throughout human history. There was a time period in history when killing another person wasn't frowned upon. We, humans, gradually evolved to understand that we would all be better off if we followed a certain moral code which evolved over time and will continue in the future. One thing is for sure, our morals don't come from an imaginary god who, himself, seems to advocate killing, rape, incest, slavery, and much more in the bible (of course in your twisted christian worldview, it's alright if god behaves like an infant imbecile or you simply say to yourself the magic words "god is mysterious" as if there is anything mysterious about acting like an infant imbecile). Why do are morals not come from our imaginary god you might ask? Because if you study history, you can clearly see how people during different time periods valued/behaved themselves differently. If your imaginary god was real and what you said was true about our morals coming from god, then why is it that these morals didn't exist during certain historical time periods and/or why did your imaginary god not become visible and said something like "hey guys, by the way you are going the wrong direction with morality"? As you can see, "morals" is a learned behavior from our surrounding environment which changes all the time and it is not built inside of us or part of our fictional soul or whatever you christians like to imagine. You guys need to learn to live in reality and stop acting like you know more than scientists and you know about the invisible world which is an oxymoron as something invisible by definition is unknown to anyone. Instead of being humble like sane people and say "we don't know", you religious people make up fairy tail ending stories to make you sleep better at night.
DeleteI'll leave you with some final words of wisdom which show how ridiculous and gullible you christians/religious people are. I'll use all caps to emphasize the important words and I'm not mad/upset. I'm just showing you the truth. Here's your story of salvation in a nutshell.
DeleteAn OMNIPOTENT and LOVING GOD CHOOSES not to use HIS POWER to simply FORGIVE humankind (even a 10 year old child can forgive), but INSTEAD implements a solution which requires that HE IMPREGNATES a TEEN girl (why not simply appear on earth???) in order to GIVE BIRTH to HIMSELF so he can have HIMSELF slaughtered to save human beings HE CREATED IMPERFECTLY IN THE FIRST PLACE (Yes, let's blame the robot and not the robot manufacturer because it makes sense) from the HELL that HE CREATED. HE then DECIDES to communicate his scheme through CONFLICTING ACCOUNTS (thus creating in the process several thousands of different religious denominations and different religions which are fighting/killing/disrespecting each other today and throughout history) penned DECADES LATER by ANONYMOUS authors and subjectively handed down by flawed translators who can't even agree on the interpretation of "virgin". Instead of leaving something very special like an indestructible/glowing/floating in mid air book with CLEAR language (no room for ambiguity) and DETAIL FUTURE REVELATIONS WITH DATES (on January 2, 1546 I at 3 PM EST YOU WILL SEE X HAPPEN etc...) HE DECIDES TO LET IMPERFECT HUMANS WRITE A BOOK WITH AMBIGUOUS LANGUAGE AND CONTRADICTING MESSAGES WITH NO DETAILED FUTURE REVELATIONS ON NORMAL PAPER/SHEEP SKIN AND LET MANY DIFFERENT VOLUMES OF THE BIBLE DISAPPEAR OVER TIME (many parts of the bible have been lost/damaged over time). And finally, HE SAYS that HE WANTS A RELATIONSHIP WITH ALL OF US yet HE REMAINS INVISIBLE/MUTE TO ALL OF US (why hide yourself from the people you love???). Yes, because a real omnipotent and loving god would behave exactly like this christian salvation. Thank goodness more and more people are waking up from this nonsense/lies and are making the world a better place as a result. Pastor, your religious beliefs are made up stories and I'm sorry you grew up brainwashed by people around you who didn't know any better. It's not your fault since most people in your generation fell for the same lies, but now that you know the truth, you can either correct your beliefs or become WILLFULLY ignorant as you can no longer say in the future that you didn't know you were wrong. You should read this latest study:
A Fascinating New Poll Shows That Americans Are Losing Faith In God
http://www.businessinsider.com/new-harris-poll-on-religion-in-america-2013-12
"I'm sorry to have to educate you pastor but there is no such thing as moral absolutes in this infinite universe. "
DeleteAre you really so ignorant of history and did you not read what I wrote. I ASK THIS BECAUSE IN YOUR VERY FIRST LINE, YOU COMPLETELY CONFIRMED MY POINT.
Indeed, if there are no moral absolutes than anything can be deemed moral by an individual. So my gay friends, what makes it wrong for Muslim nations to EXECUTE gays - other than the fact that you don't like it?
It was EXACTLY this kind of thinking that enabled the NAZIS to come to power - with the aid of many German gays - and then kill some and throw the rest of them into the same camps that they helped throw the Christians who spoke out against the NAZIS.
As for needing validation, what you choose to believe has zero effect upon me as long as you do not interfere with my life. When gays feel threatened by someone who supports them on all or nearly all their civil rights issues, but needs to attack someone who has moral objections to their behavior, it is very clear who needs validation.
The funny thing is, lots of gays do not seem to need such validation. Several years ago, two of my gay friends wanted to get married. They asked me to do the ceremony - and I had to say no. They understood why and their next question was, "Will you come?" My wife and I said, "Of course, you are our friends!" We attended the wedding and are still friends. One of them share a link to this page.
So what is the lesson? How about this: People do not have to agree upon every point of morality in order to be friends. If we can do that as a nation, we will remain free.
BTW, I think A&E missed a chance to grab some ratings and do some good. They could have found a gay person (or two, or more) to go on the show. If Phil Robertson refused, he really would be a bigot - if he accepted, the nation might be able to see a Bible Christian and a gay man become friends.
"Indeed, if there are no moral absolutes than anything can be deemed moral by an individual. So my gay friends, what makes it wrong for Muslim nations to EXECUTE gays - other than the fact that you don't like it?"
DeleteThat's exactly my point pastor. Because there is no such thing as "moral absolutes", people in this world live according to what they personally think is right. This is why your gay friends and mine would be executed in a predominantly Muslim country and why many Christians don't feel bad for bullying, insulting, beating, and preventing gay rights for gay people (Phil would be one of them if it was all up to him if gays should have equal rights as I've seen his sermon video on Youtube and he was pathetically ignorant). Of course, you might not think many of those people I'm talking about are "true Christians" but "true Christians" mean different things to different Christian people since in the end all religions are simply people choosing what to believe and what not to believe. We could line up 2,000 Christians in a parking lot and ask them specific questions separately about what they believe from Christianity and most will have different responses for different questions. That sir, is how religion in the end is made up in the individuals' heads. Of course, you would all agree on the basics of Christianity like jesus is your lord and savior, but the basics don't help much with the more important parts about how to live your life and what to believe in your ambiguous book you call the bible. This is why there are 1000's of different Christian denominational beliefs which is really no different than people choosing what to believe in the general world. If there were such things as "moral absolutes from god" then we would all innately come to some standard of agreement towards morals. Instead, we get our "morals" from trying to understand how we can all live in this world without chaos. This is where our public laws and etiquette started to evolve when humans started to come together and live in villages then larger cities as the years went by ("morals" began when rules where created as the villages got bigger). Morals are a learned behavior from our natural surroundings and we try to pass them along to our children and grandchildren just like we try to pass them everything else we've learned in life. One person's moral behavior can be another person's immoral behavior based on what we each learn from our own surrounding environment. In the end, there are no such things as moral absolutes as things are always evolving over time. The theory of evolution is another reason why Christianity/religions are wrong, but that would take too long to explain here.
I don't doubt that there are many gay people who wouldn't get offended/upset if you told them no about doing the ceremony, but just like straight people, not every gay person is the same. Different people have different things which might upset them and/or have different levels of tolerance for bigotry. Simply because your gay friends just said ok doesn't mean what you did is right and not insulting to other/most gay people. If you truly saw them as your friends then you should have done the ceremony as that's the meaning of true friendship. Instead, just like I proved before, you think your way of life is superior because of your invisible/mute god puts marriage between a man and a woman in a fictional book. You are an ignorant bigot and not a true friend for this reason in my personal opinion. And to show you how moral absolutes don't exist again, there are several pastors who would have and have done gay marriage ceremonies. You see, different people, even among pastors, create their own moral behaviors. One pastor like yourself might see it as wrong/immoral/going against god while another pastor might see it as right/the moral thing to do/god loves everyone and doesn't discriminate against gay marriage. In the end pastor, you create your own morals, and sadly to say for you, you're standing on the wrong side of history! Today was good news for gay marriage coming out of Utah's court ruling which will set a precedent for future gay marriage battles in the remaining states. Eventually all states will have gay marriage (maybe within 10 years) and then a bit later (within the next 15 years), more and more church pastors will sing a different tune and evolve their morals to include doing gay marriage ceremonies and people will forget and act like this has always been the norm. If you are still alive to see that day, I wonder if you'll finally understand that refusing to do a gay marriage is wrong and insulting to gay couples just like today it would be insulting to tell blacks to use a separate bathroom. You might come to regret your decision to say no to your gay friends one day. Maybe it will take this lesson for you to finally learn how terribly wrong Christians/religious people are about your made up beliefs.
DeleteWow, well as someone who is a part of this future young generation I have to tell you... Christianity is not dying. Not sure why you think that. You say you're amazed we can read between the lines and not see that thinking homosexuality is wrong is hateful and insulting to homosexuals. I'm amazed you completely missed the entire point of what he wrote. He's for gay rights. He supports your right to do what you want. He just thinks it's wrong. Why do you hate someone who disapproves of what you think? Isn't that the definition of hypocritical thinking? No one is forcing you to act Christian, and good Christians, like this author, do not even look down on those who don't follow Christ. We are going to follow Him, we're going to tell you that you should to. We will not hold it against you if you choose not to. I'm really missing how that is judgmental or hateful. I think you have a poor understanding of the meaning of the word "respect" as well. You do not have to agree with someone to respect them.
ReplyDeleteBrent, you should probably read this new study. I don't know if you've been living under a rock all these years, but there is a change in religious faith in the United States (and other countries). It might help if you get your news from a diverse range of sources instead of probably conservative news sources like Fox News and christian websites. They would be the last ones to admit that they have a problem inside religion. You can read for yourself here:
DeleteA Fascinating New Poll Shows That Americans Are Losing Faith In God
http://www.businessinsider.com/new-harris-poll-on-religion-in-america-2013-12
I'll leave you with some final words of wisdom which show how ridiculous and gullible you christians/religious people are. I'll use all caps to emphasize the important words and I'm not mad/upset. I'm just showing you the truth. Here's your story of salvation in a nutshell.
An OMNIPOTENT and LOVING GOD CHOOSES not to use HIS POWER to simply FORGIVE humankind (even a 10 year old child can forgive), but INSTEAD implements a solution which requires that HE IMPREGNATES a TEEN girl (why not simply appear on earth???) in order to GIVE BIRTH to HIMSELF so he can have HIMSELF slaughtered to save human beings HE CREATED IMPERFECTLY IN THE FIRST PLACE (Yes, let's blame the robot and not the robot manufacturer because it makes sense) from the HELL that HE CREATED. HE then DECIDES to communicate his scheme through CONFLICTING ACCOUNTS (thus creating in the process several thousands of different religious denominations and different religions which are fighting/killing/disrespecting each other today and throughout history) penned DECADES LATER by ANONYMOUS authors and subjectively handed down by flawed translators who can't even agree on the interpretation of "virgin". Instead of leaving something very special like an indestructible/glowing/floating in mid air book with CLEAR language (no room for ambiguity) and DETAIL FUTURE REVELATIONS WITH DATES (on January 2, 1546 I at 3 PM EST YOU WILL SEE X HAPPEN etc...) HE DECIDES TO LET IMPERFECT HUMANS WRITE A BOOK WITH AMBIGUOUS LANGUAGE AND CONTRADICTING MESSAGES WITH NO DETAILED FUTURE REVELATIONS ON NORMAL PAPER/SHEEP SKIN AND LET MANY DIFFERENT VOLUMES OF THE BIBLE DISAPPEAR OVER TIME (many parts of the bible have been lost/damaged over time). And finally, HE SAYS that HE WANTS A RELATIONSHIP WITH ALL OF US yet HE REMAINS INVISIBLE/MUTE TO ALL OF US (why hide yourself from the people you love???). Yes, because a real omnipotent and loving god would behave exactly like this christian salvation. Thank goodness more and more people are waking up from this nonsense/lies and are making the world a better place as a result.
Brent, if you are part of the young generation and you believe all this crap, then you haven't opened your eyes wide enough and used your brain. Don't be closed minded like religious people who are in denial of reality. Either way, more and more people are getting it and are sick of religion trying to control/insult people with their nonsensical beliefs! Have a good day!
Wow, Michael. Your hypocrisy knows no ceiling, does it. You think Christians should be taking the tar and feathers to Phil Robertson for his comparatively mild remarks which insulted Gays to sheer woundedness. (and this while you ignore the numerous other sins not specific to gays he listed) Yet, you feel free to post far more hateful and denigrating comments than those on this blog of one who supports your causes, obviously cares deeply about people in his life who are Gay, and calls for true tolerance.
DeleteBy the way, what's up with the all-caps-shouting? You might need to consider getting some help, as you seem to be displaying a great deal more anger than this conversation warrants.
Penny, thank you for your kind words. You are right - I do care very much for everyone God has placed in my path - be they gay or straight. I'm older and now retired with some physical challenges. I do what I can.
DeleteThere has been talk about young people not being as religious. Well, I have a daughter in her early 30s who is working in her second church as a self-supporting staff member. She moved 400 miles to help in a church in inner city L.A. Their mission statement is simple: Love the city. We were down there recently and it seemed like they were doing a pretty good job of doing just that. Funny thing was, that church had a ton of young people in their 20s. I wonder why?
I think Jesus is pleased with what they are doing :)
Penny, if you actually read what I wrote then you would have seen that the all-caps were not a sign of anger but instead an emphasis on important words for an important and serious problem within the Christian faith. I clearly even stated this at the beginning, but just like most Christians, you skip reading things altogether/ignore the truthful parts of reality. It's no wonder you don't know much about the bible since you haven't taken the time to read that repulsive, ambiguous, and contradicting book written at a time when men just started to write and use their brain to think about the world around them. And by the way Vince, your daughter's story doesn't mean anything as it doesn't measure the overall religious change that is happening around this country (you really ignored the article I shared with you with the recent study. Shame on you for ignoring it and acting like things aren't changing). Speaking of L.A., some new atheist group started a "church" (not really a church since atheists don't believe in the fictional gods that all religions created, but instead it's a place for atheists and people in general to gather and meet new people and honestly discuss religion/play games/more). There are several other atheist "churches" opening around the country and there was a good article about this in the New York Times recently. This is just one example how things are changing fast, but I don't expect most close minded Christians to know what's happening outside their own neighborhood until the change comes closer in their backyard. I'm just letting you know since you live in your own denial bubble. Have a nice day!
DeleteAlso author, I think you left out the word "from" in between "far" and "unusual" when you wrote
ReplyDelete'I'm sure that the folks at A&E don't realize it yet, but his beliefs are far unusual among serious Christians."
Thanks, it is very hard to proof one's own work :)
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has not always followed the path of truth, I am not adverse to others choosing to live as they want. If a person is a part of LGBT community, so what. If there is a God, Higher Power, or Great Spirit, then ultimately He/She will be the judge of how any and all of us have lived on earth. It isn't for me to say that this person's or that person's beliefs are right or wrong. I may not agree with everything someone else feels, thinks, or believes because I am my own person who's values & beliefs have been shaped by his own life experiences. I have no idea what mysteries the universe holds. All the scientists in the world don't even know. A person can believe whatever they choose to. It only becomes a problem when that person condemns others for believing differently than they do. One the right some people are trying to shove their own personal moral beliefs down the throats of others who are opposed to that belief, and on the left, there are people who stand in so much opposition to the other side that they consider all those who oppose their lifestyles as hate filled against them. The true answer to this, or so I believe, is learning acceptance of those who are different then you are. It is not always easy for people to learn to be tolerant of one another. In fact, it can be darn hard, yet it is possible if people teach themselves to be open minded and considerate of others. I fear our poor country is heading to hell in a hand basket, yet if it is to be, so be it. Man will bicker and fight with man till the end of the earth and beyond if we are ever so fortunate to be able to spread out into the universe at large. I am sadden by the things I see in our world. Truly I am. We have so many other things to worry about then hating one another.
ReplyDeleteWow, I think we are pretty much on the same page.
DeleteIf I were to talk to Phil, who I believe has experienced God's grace, I would certainly encourage him to stress grace a bit more. IMHO, the best way to do so is to live it - and to extend it to others. I'm confident that he wanted to do this, and that he tried to do this, but I do think he could have done better.
DL Moody was the Billy Graham of the 2nd half of the 1800s. He had a lot of critics. Once a group of reporters wanted him to comment on one of them, who I believe had been caught in adultery. Moody's comment, "Right now I am having too much trouble with DL Moody to worry about him."
One thing is for sure, when we Christians focus on the law of God and the judgement of God, we must never forget that our primary mission is to live out the love of God.